Episode 8

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Published on:

8th Nov 2026

Dreaming in Chinese medicine and beyond: butterflies and bears, astral travel, and group chats with the ancestors

This month's episode is a welcome chance to explore one of my personal favorite topics of inquiry: dreaming. It is inspired not just by my love for napping under my gnarled maple tree or watching butterflies transform, but because we have noticed a lot of interest and questions in our community. So we try our best to introduce our listeners to the many and varied perspectives on dreaming that are found in Chinese traditional culture. Here are just a few angles that we play with in this conversation:

  1. Guided by Zhuangzi's famous butterfly dream, we look at dreaming and waking as potent metaphors for the limited human ability to perceive the true nature of reality, or the cosmic Dao, amid the ceaseless transformations in the perceptual realm.
  2. Going way back to the ancient Shang dynasty, we explore dreaming as a portal through which we can access special knowledge for purposes like divination; receive supernatural gifts like rituals, medicinal knowledge and substances, and sacred texts; and connect with entities that we are unable to communicate with in our waking life, from ancestors to astral deities to talking trees.
  3. We celebrate dreaming as a space for joyous liberation from the waking realm of ordinary human constraints.
  4. We briefly touch on the potential use of dreams for medical diagnosis, as expressed in the medical literature. Here we emphasize the dominant perception of dreams as pathological manifestations of excess Qi that is disturbing the healthy equilibrium needed for calm, restful sleep.
  5. We touch on Tibetan dream yoga and the human ability to intentionally cultivate the ability for lucid dreaming and to communicate in a sort of "group chat" with other participants in one's dreamscape, whether dead or alive.
  6. In the context of traditional self-cultivation practices, dreaming offers the practitioner a liminal space beyond conscious control, with potentially both positive and negative effects.
  7. Lastly, dreaming can be a cause of pollution and then require ritual purification or even drastic exorcisms if the dreamer becomes possessed and the entity refuses to leave.

We conclude our conversation by exploring the place of dreaming in the modern clinic, both in terms of the diagnostic and therapeutic potential of dreaming and in terms of its limits due to cultural differences and the unchangeable fact that at the end of the day, dreaming has always been and will always be a private experience ... unless you join the psychic grannies' group chat, that is!

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About the Podcast

A Pebble in the Cosmic Pond
Old and New Stories from China's Healing Traditions
Tune in every New Moon for inspiring, joyful, and informative conversations with Sabine Wilms and Leo Lok on transforming ourselves, our communities, and the world, in the spirit of traditional Chinese medicine, spirituality, and philosophy. Separating fact from fiction, we aim to bring you medicine from China's distant past, translated here to meet YOUR needs today, in your personal practice, in your community, and in the clinic.

Sabine Wilms, PhD, is a medical historian, recovering university professor, and author and translator of more than a dozen books on the Chinese healing arts, from gynecology and pediatrics to medical ethics and materia medica, published by Happy Goat Productions. In addition to writing, she runs the only advanced 2-year classical Chinese training program for practitioners of Chinese medicine and contributes insights from her checkered past as a biodynamic goat farmer and musician, all under the banner of her favorite phrase, “cosmic resonance,” a.k.a. the Chinese ideal of harmony between the three realms of Heaven, Earth, and Humanity. Leo Lok, our "purveyor of multiple perspectives," is a practitioner and independent scholar of Chinese Medicine. A native speaker/reader of Chinese languages, Leo is one of the rare clinician-scholars in the world who excels in researching and translating ancient Chinese medical literature into the English language.

Together, we offer courses on the Chinese healing arts and run the "Frolicking Fish Community" to provide deep, sustained engagement with our work and play. In a lovingly curated themed collection, we present you each month with the introductory "moongate," original translations, creative expressions, and audio and video recordings on the Chinese healing arts, culture and history, food and art, philosophy and religion, Qi cultivation, and more. In addition, the community forum offers connection, education, and inspiration.

We both love to inspire people and spread around some healing and loving vibrations. Here are our three main goals:
1. Bridge-building: We gather to explore the liminal sweet spot, in between Heaven and Earth, the distant past and the present moment, East and West, the clinic and the academy, the healer and the scholar, the discernible and the unfathomable, oral lineage and written text, and, ultimately, Yin and Yang.
2. Collaboration: The treasure house of traditional Chinese medicine is bigger than any single person's expertise, no matter how vast. We actively pursue and embrace a diversity of opinions so that we can collectively deepen our understanding. We always aim to approach our disagreements with curiosity and mutual respect, instead of defensiveness.
3. Authentic Transmission: Translation, from the past to the present, from Chinese to English, from texts to clinical application, etc., invariably involves an alteration and adaptation of the original message. How do we stay true to the wisdom and spirit of the ancient Chinese texts while still making sense to our modern English-speaking listeners? We invite you to consider the creative challenges of this task with us.

In addition to subscribing to this podcast, we invite you to sign up for our newsletter (at Happygoatproductions.com/connect), where we share resources like free articles, announcements of new courses or publications, updates on our work and life, little glimpses of love and joy and beauty, and occasionally Sabine's poetry and farm pictures.
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About your host

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Sabine Wilms

I am the producer, manager, director, and (whether I like it or not) person in charge of this podcast. I take full responsibility for this project and vision but do not necessarily agree with anything anybody else says on my podcast, whether it is framed as an opinion or a fact. You can find out more about my books at happygoatproductions.com, my mentoring at imperialtutor.com, my classical Chinese offerings at translatingchinesemedicine.com, and my gynecology courses at traditionalChinesegynecology.com.